Lucy Dacus on death, lust and blowing up your life

This is Lucy Dacus’ first press interview in over a year. She is nervous but is friendly and polite even though our internet connection is shaky during the call. She admits that being on Zoom can be a bit triggering for her – and after the year she’s had, it’s easy to see why.

As a solo artist, Dacus found success with his critically acclaimed albums No burden (2016), Historian (2018), and Home video (2021). She gained even greater visibility as part of the indie rock supergroup boygeniuswith Julien Baker and Phoebe Bridgers. Their 2023 debut album, the recordachieved critical and commercial acclaim along with three Grammy Awards and a Brit Award in 2024. However, fame brought challenges, including invasive attention. In a 2023 Guardian interview, the trio shared their decision to enter therapy to cope with the complexities of fame. Reflecting on fame, Dacus tells Dazed, “I wouldn’t wish it (fame) on anybody. But also, if you showed me this life in a lineup, I’d choose it over and over again.”

It hasn’t been easy for her to re-enter this space, but Dacus truly loves making music. It’s her primary way of expressing herself, and her latest single ‘Ankles’along with her upcoming album, Forever is a feelingare clear reflections of this. “I think with this whole record I was writing songs as things happened,” explains Dacus. “Most of the time it has taken years before I can write about something, but this is the first time I felt that I necessary to write about my current feelings, for my own well-being, to express to myself what is going on.”

Alluding to a significant breakup and a period of transformation in her life, Dacus delves into themes of temporality and acceptance. Below, she discusses her latest single, ‘Ankles’, her upcoming album and the importance of making friends with death, stressing that forever is not something to chase, but rather something to feel.

What is ‘Ankler’ about and what inspired it?

Lucy Dacus: ‘Ankles’ is especially about wanting something you can’t have naked you can’t have and trying to figure out how to let off that steam so it doesn’t explode and blow up your life. And the phase where your mind is going crazy and you imagine all these things but you limit what you actually do and want and try to have self control. It’s a lot sexier than I usually go for, but it’s a fun little bop.

‘Ankles’ feels imbued with desire – you can hear it in the way the strings build at the beginning and the lyrics. Desire is an intriguing theme, especially in a world where our immediate desires are easily fulfilled. Yet we are still asked to suppress deeper, more instinctive desires. What made you want to focus on lust in this song?

Lucy Dacus: I think we confuse lust and love so much in this world. What people think love is is actually such a commodified version of it. And you’re right that most of our wants or desires are being met at an all-time high right now, but I think our sense of connection is at an all-time low, and it’s not across the board. It exists. I’m not pessimistic in that way. But especially when you think about Covid, where everyone was on their phones and everything we wanted was available to us on our screens – we actually have this compelling need for physical interaction that’s not being met. In this connection, our wishes are not really fulfilled in society. Right now we are on Zoom. I feel like I open Zoom and get triggered (laughing). I’ve watched too much Zoom in my life, you know? It’s not real, it’s not a real relationship.

“The fear of death motivates a lot of ugly behavior and pain. Death, when it comes to life, but also all the little deaths along the way… I think avoiding grief is a big emotional pollutant“ – Lucy Dacus

You mention Zoom and being triggered by being back in this room. Your upcoming album, Forever is a feelingthe great success follows the recordyour debut studio album with boygenius. Have you felt any anxieties about releasing new music after such a monumental year?

Lucy Dacus: So anxious. You’re hitting it on the head right now. So anxious for so many reasons. When I went from doing everything with Julien and Phoebe to being alone, I’ve been worried that it would feel lonely. But in general, the perception is that if I don’t win three Grammys, or if I don’t sell out Madison Square Garden, that somehow everything I do is less. But I have such different goals for this. The main goal was to make it and be proud of it, which I have already done. Now I just want to share it in a way that gets it across. But it’s also the first time I think people’s expectations of me have been higher than my own. So yeah, it’s all the usual worries plus a whole new category. You’d think it would get easier, but I don’t feel that way.

Does the concept of celebrity influence your art?

Lucy Dacus: I don’t feel like it affects my art, but I feel like it affects my life. I guess one thing is, I want to write as truthfully as possible, and then eventually if I’ve revealed something too personal, like, if I’m making a fool of myself, I’ll be like, ‘OK, I’m going to change the street name,’ or you know, if I’m talking about people and I use their name, and then I go, ‘Oh, people are going to make a big deal out of it. I need to change the person’s name’. It is interesting. I wouldn’t wish it (fame) on anyone. But also, if you showed me this life in a lineup, I’d choose it over and over again.

In the music video for ‘Ankles’, Havana Rose Liu plays a security guard who travels around Paris to find you because you broke out of a painting. Can you tell us more about the video and the process of making it?

Lucy Dacus: It started with the dress. So I had this idea for a giant red dress and I worked with Rodarte. I’ve been a fan of their work for a while and they made this bespoke, really massive garment, a corset and three petticoats. It was actually a pain to wear and I passed out the next day. We shot it in two days, and on the second day, towards the end, my vision started to disappear. Back then, people had fainting couches for people who wore these things. Like, it’s so real. And we had to cut a whole sequence on a bridge that we had to make. But in the end I’m really happy with how it turned out.

I know you can’t reveal too much, but could you share a little about the mood board or the inspirations behind it Forever is a feeling?

Lucy Dacus: The music came first. I’m always writing, and then when I notice a theme that’s enough for a record, I think: ‘OK, there’s probably something there’. I wrote songs about my family years ago, but I don’t have enough songs to make a record about my family yet. I don’t really have many songs about romantic love. I have a lot of songs about friends and I have a lot of songs about love in the grand scheme of things; but when it comes to romantic love, it’s not a territory I’ve really ventured into. Then the art for the album has this old historical, romantic theme, because even though love feels new to you, it’s such an old thing. People have felt that rush forever. So I just thought that these beautiful works and historical moments were often motivated by immense love and dedication to beauty, which I think love can be.

“You are responsible for your life; if you blow it up, you’re still alive. And if you don’t like the life that follows, you can blow it up again“ – Lucy Dacus

You wrote most of the songs Forever is a feeling between autumn 2022 and summer 2024. What did that period teach you about yourself, both personally and creatively?

Lucy Dacus: That time period encapsulates all of Boygenius. I have two answers that are actually the same answer. A great lesson is that you are in charge of your life; if you blow it up, you’re still alive. And if you don’t like the life that follows, you can blow it up again. Everything you’re timidly trying to hold together can be better if it falls away. More creatively and professionally, I think I used to feel like I should just be happy to be here, you know? I felt like an employee of some abstract boss. I haven’t had a boss in music; I’m the boss, but I forgot. Like anything anyone tells me to do, I just had to figure out how to be okay with it. But now I don’t say any more, or if I’m handed a certain set of circumstances, I’ll say, ‘What if we change this or that?’ And I guess I’m very detail-oriented, which is OK. I’m very worried about bothering people, but it will bother me more over time if the art isn’t something I’m proud of.

The title of your upcoming album, Forever is a feelingis so evocative. I loved your description:’You can’t actually capture forever, but I think we feel forever in moments. I don’t know how much time I’ve spent in ages, but I know I’ve been visiting.’ It feels culturally relevant, especially in contrast to the rise of immortality science. Can you talk more about the thoughts behind this theme and its meaning for you?

Lucy Dacus: I think that’s a really good mentality to bring to love, where it’s like, ‘OK, this is beautiful for what it is, as long as it can be,’ and then come to terms with the fact that things pass. But in general, I think people’s fear of temporality is so dangerous. I think the fear of death motivates a lot of ugly behavior and pain, you know? Death, when it comes to life, but also all the little deaths along the way – all the things that inspire us to mourn. I think avoiding grief is a huge emotional pollutant. I can’t think of another way to say it, but if you make friends with it or become comfortable with the idea that things pass, I think you can live more in gratitude than in sadness. You can take it for what it is and then have a reality check with yourself when the moment is over. Sometimes I’m in that mood where I’m so happy I wish I could live forever. But I think it’s stupid that these people try to live forever, because they don’t want to. You have a limited amount of time, which should inspire you to just enjoy things. I see people like that and I feel bad because they live in fear all the time and I don’t want to live like that.

Forever is a feeling is set for release on March 28 via Geffen Records / Polydor Label Group.